Creator Interviews: Cody Fernandez of IronVerse Comics

Have you ever thought about doing a crowdfunding campaign?

Launching a campaign is a large commitment and can have a lot of pitfalls. I'm here today with a special guest, Cody Fernandez, Founder of Ironverse Comics. You might recognize him from his primary series Jack Irons: Steel Cowboy, a story about an Immortal Jack who has lived many lifetimes; and Kactus Coyote, a different story set up in the same universe. Ironverse has gone through multiple crowdfunding campaigns, and at the time of writing, Issue #4 is nearing completion.

With that intro out of the way, let's sit down with Cody from Ironverse! The following summarized transcript has been taken from an interview. If you'd like to watch the full video, you can watch it below!
 

1. What was the beginning of Ironverse like? Specifically, Jack Irons: Steel Cowboy? How did the idea begin?

Cody: It was a character in a world that I wanted to manifest. It was a way that as a young man I was able to transition from childhood perspectives to adult perspectives and adult problems. This character [Jack] has lived with so much, been through so much and experienced so much, and now is just stuck with it. There is no exit from this immortality.

So that's kinda where it came from, and it's been that exploration of that theme throughout the series so far. We'll continue to explore that. We wanted to build something with that weight [of the world] and make them into comic book characters, as iconic as you can. These ideas that we have transformed into characters. Possible a Heavy Metal Justice League? It's still growing, started out small and now is turning into a One Piece type deal, assembling a crew almost more than a superhero-universe type of deal.
 

2. Did you have any idea on how long this might be when you started? Did you have a plan in the beginning for what you wanted it to be?

Cody: With Jack, I wanted it to be a character to have unlimited potential. He's had thousands of lives, so you could pick just one and make a one shot from it. It has infinite potential, but the main storyline has an end. We've got what could be the first act, or the finale. It could go either way, which I love. Honestly, when I built it, I wanted to build that Marvel / DC world that could just go on. ... We could work a set length, but it's never going to be finished. That's the bittersweet part of it. It's supposed to be a representation for humanity bearing this weight, and it's almost a horrific unlimited potential. I'm not going to be able to finish it, ever.



3. How did you know you were ready to make this a real comic and not just a passion project? How did you start?

Cody: I had been writing the first 4 issues as a graphic novel, 144 pages. Just had to get the ideas down so that it existed out of my head. A year or two after, my mother passed, and that was hard. I ended up witha  little cash, and I was down. I was looking for something to explore this pain and lift me up. I had this project with Jack there...

I had no idea how much comics cost to make, or the process. I'm not a talented artist, nor have the talent or attention to draw. I needed to find someone who gets what I was doing. I'm contacting people and got some no answers, some people responded and I got little responses. I even tried Craigslist to meet people face to face. It's a small artist community in Taos, New Mexico, and I hadn't gotten much feedback about my budget, being too low. They told me nothing.

Maxi Dall'o from Argentina reached out, came up from Santa Fe and we met at a McDonald's. He showed me his portfolio, and was mostly a children's illustrator. We got to talking and he was interested in our story, and worked well below what anyone should work for. ... We've been able to increase his wage above industry standard and he's now getting even more work, so we've been able to help him out. I found that connection I was looking for. He was able to do things with the work, to make it work. I come from the idea, and then he could communicate that with his work. He never lost my message, but was able to add to it.

I took the risks because I had hit rock bottom. I did that first crowdfunding because publishers weren't willing to pay for it. I bit that bullet and was stubborn. I had to create the space for it to happen.



4. Did you try other options before crowdfunding? When did you know you were ready for crowdfunding?

Cody: There was a step between publishers and crowdfunding. I'd submitted to publishers for 3 years and got only one response. They read it and liked it, but it wasn't something they could publish. There's a lot of finding your own path and I had to put in the time. It was getting nowhere, it was just me and Maxi. I was a terrible letterer. Publishers want a motor and engine already running, they don't want parts or fix 'em uppers.

It was nice to get one person to read, it got out there. But I needed more. I looked into webcomics, like Tapas and Webtoons. I didn't know I could put it on both at the time. It was out there, but I had no success. Western genre isn't really on those platforms. They were inundated with romance and fantasy, nobody was reading it passively, and the platform isn't helping me.

I can use this to help me crowdfund since it now exists. I submitted it to Indiegogo and had a link to the Tapas version, it was horribly lettered. During the campaign I had someone reach out to me and tell me the story is great, but the lettering was terrible. He offered to letter for me, and the budget was spent on Maxi at the time, so I was very blessed. With the new version I felt more confident to try the campaign and it only got 10$ in 60 days.

Self promo is very difficult on social media and I ended up jumping onto Twitter at a time people were hungry for content. On the second run of the campaign we were finally getting noticed.



5. A lot of people struggle with self promotion, something you don't seem to struggle with. The curation of social media is really a big factor with a lot of creative projects now. Any advice?

Cody: What I've found is that comics is a very unique fandom, I'll use that term specifically. Almost all readers I interact with have a feeling, that is exceedingly accessible to tell stories in. Many comic and manga fans have a desire to create their own comics and manga. You can come to this table and think there is only so much energy to go around and that you can't or shouldn't share the work of others. You could get defensive, or you can see it as a work in progress and the potential for growth. It's a gluttony of artistry, and when I see someone who can share that passion, there is no way I couldn't take part in it!

Art blew my teenage mind, when digital coloring and linework started to take hold. When I saw that, I thought that movies can't hold a candle to this. There is infinite potential here, and I want to grow that table. This is going to keep growing, and you can take part in it and enjoy it. You get back what you give, most of the time. In my experience, if you are being a conduit, more than a sponge,  you'll get more out of what you are doing.

6. How did you go about planning that first campaign, what sort of concerns did you have? Maybe anything you would have done differently?

Cody: Honestly, I don't remember it very much. I wasn't doing very much. That was before I joined social media, what I was doing didn't get traction. The second campaign I was very loud and found my places for work. It was outside the main stream, we are very much that. It's a very niche, weird space-science-fiction-western story. The visual iconography was key. In comics, if your book doesn't look good, even if the style is cool, it has to feel like a stylistic choice and not a limitation. It needs to be something that can pull weight, pull that professional level. That feeling of refinement, a skill that looks honed for hours and hours and hours.

I'm very blessed these people feel comfortable stumbling with me through this process. You can start on the wrong foot and not even know it. I've veen very blessed to find people who want to do this. Maxi has had a larger demand for his work, he was scheduled already. We had to work with that.. Handling success isn't something you really preapre for. His new projects is call Kids and Monsters, he continuously improves!  I don't want to work with another team, and I have the option, but I wanted to work with him. Deadlines were missed and this is part of the collaboration bit that I'm learning and dealing with now.

At no point was I scard of failing. Some people are afraid of failing Go ahead fail. Try again, nobody is gonna hate you unless you simply fail to deliver. It's happened to others. All failing is you didn't reach your goal, but it means work needs to be done. How can we learn from it.?

7. Do you define your target audience before or after? What there a marketing strategy at all?

Cody: Jack Irons was made for me first, it's something I want to read. I'm hoping it's something that everyone can find themselves in. I took a shotgun attempt at marketing and from there learned. I refined and refined. I networked with as many people as I could. When I hit Twitter, most of the fans I found were agitated DC and Marvel fans. They wanted something else, and I stepped in. It wasn't a tight group, but we wanted to help each other suceed. Hopefully it can appeal to anyone, even though it is niche. It isn't going to appeal to everyone or make eveeryone happy.

It was a stepping down to appeal to everyone first, and based on what worked, refined from there. It was a step by step process. It's tough. Part of it is this large table. It can be perceived as not having enough space. You can threaten people by how good you are and they can be offended by that. Their work is close to their heart, it's personal to them, and they can get defensive. It's part of the work we do. Jack is a presentation of hope, not really uplifting gag, but we watch him go through this.



8. Reading IronVerse was so refreshing to me, seeing Jack go through these struggles, mentally. You don't tend to see a lot of mental health in comics like this. Tell me about that.

Cody: A lot of it is set dressing, stylistic choice. It's resonances I had a child that really stuck with me. A lot of science fiction is opression and dystompian. Philosphy and religion was a large part of when I was growing, with the Four Horsemen concept. They are a pillars of everything Ironverse. Issue #4 is actually the retelling an ancient Buddhist tale. This spirituality isn't something I'm trying to trope out. It's stylistic intentions to make sure the ideas and thoughts are communicated effectively.

9. As you were going through these volumes, the growth of yourself, your skills, and the characters... Did you find that it got easier as you went along with these campaigns? Or was it harder to manage it all?

Cody: Your hope is that you aren't making the same mistakes. You'll always make new ones. I adapted each time I failed a campaign. I was actively learning how this works. Each of those connections allowed me to learn new things. New creators want to go to publishers, but I don't think I'll be able. It's not in my cards. It would be nice to write and be paid for it. If you really want to get out there and create, you have to find a way. It probably won't be the same way as someone else. You can learn from each other, and you should.

Comics, especialy creators who have been working a long time on something, it's very personal to them. It's very close to their hearts. I hope that my passion cna be communicated to the next set of people and continues from there. Some people are threatened by that communication, the learning and sharing of techniques and ideas.



10. A lot of creators are shy about self promotion, even for their crowdfunding campaigns. What advice would you have for them?

Cody: I am completely shameless. If people don't like it, they can move on. Reddit is tough, usually just a mod slapping you down. With Twitter, you gotta have tact, even if you are shameless. Don't promote your work on threads where other people are trying to promote their work. You wouldn't just walk up to someone's table and start selling your book. It's not good. Don't do it. Be respectful.

I know at the end of the day, I'm not being harmful. I actively avoid conflit. I don't like it. If you go to their work and talk and make a genuine connection, then later it might be ok to network and promote each other. We also don't want the "I'm oppoing this thing, therefore my work is good". We need to be balanced, have artistry to promoting yourself. You'll have more luck with respect than aggression.

Miyamoto Musashi said that, "there is more than path up the mountain". I don't disrepect other paths that I did not want to take. My path worked for me, and might not work from you. Try to learn from other paths. Be stubborn, but don't be rigid.



11. Is there a plan during the campaign to promote consistently?

Cody: I'm anti-rigidity, so I don't really have plans before hand. I have stepping stones to work off of, but they don't always reach. I sorta.. bang my head against a wall and see what works. There's a paper shortage right now, so that's something we are having to adjust for and be ready for and be ready to change if needed.

12. With the changing landscape of comics and manga, digital vs traditional printing, do we want to move towards digital? Should we keep printing?

Cody: It'll be the big guys who figure it out, like Marvel and DC. Shonen Jump is moving digitally, and nobody can keep up with their level of production. Dealing with a small publisher, Wikid Publishing, we were able to keep going. I wonder if Jack Irons would be dead without that help. Digital is the landscape now, even though I love my printed manga, my omni editions. It's an interesting thing, that even in the Japanese market, they are doing better with print than digital. Their indie market is also incredibly healthy. They view their IP law a little less rigid, lots of Doujinshi artists were making fanfiction, then got hired. That doesn't happen here.

Companies here have submissions "open", but rarely are interested in new talen out of nowhere. You need to get seen first, and might need to be seen and have them come to you before you can move forward. You also might need to have someone else open that door for you.



13. When looking for a team, do you have any advice?

Cody: I had that one shot in the dark, and we got very lucky. We ran our first successful campaign much more loosely that the others. We had Wikid Publishing helping us financially and many of our collaborators found me and just wanted to work on the project. If I found someone I wanted to work with, I'd ask their price and see if we could work together. I wanted to do what I could to give them that platform and build some footing for people, supporting our collaborators.

Social Media allows me to support others and find those who can work with us. I love Portfolio Day, it leads into a wave of talents I can collect a list of. The worst you might get is a no, or a jerk. Then you really know you'd not want to work with them anyway! Social media, especially Twitter is absolutely full of talent. Just make sure whoever you are collaborating with, you have the same goal, to get this work done. You need a balance of rigidity and flexibility. Be workable so that the project can progress. If people like you, if you are good with payments and reliable, they'll want to share in what you are doing.



14. Did you have any campaigns with negative feedback or comments? How did you handle that information in a positive way for growth?

Cody: Any engagement is pretty priceless. Any interaction is something I try to make positive. There was really only one time I was struggling with a negative interaction. Negative feedback or criticism, is usually coming from a place of wanting to be better. Sometimes it can be negative. Even if I have a negative experience or event, I always try to figure out how to leave it on a positive note or learn from it to be better prepared in teh future. To grow from it. If the interaction is toxic, I try to find out how to end it positively, as positive as possible.

I always try to be humble, even in a negative space. There's always something to learn. Some people are more fragile than others, and it's easy to hurt someone. Text is less personal, it's usually strangers, so it has a larger sting at time. Keep your head in the game and not let yourself become a victim. Let your work carry you can lift you up! Lift others up with their work too.



15. Do you find there is a trend where books tend to sell less the longer they are? Are you worried?

Cody: In indies and manga, we tend to do trials with one shots and if they do well, we move forward. I'm going to do this until I am unable, no matter the results. I have the faith in this no matter what. It's very personal to me, it's given people work and inspired another company. That fear of failure... you only fail when you give up. Tenacity will get you through anything. If I don't give up I can't lose.

We've actually grown readership with each release, but Issue 4 was our longest Hiatus. However, it's never a personal failing. It's not me that fails. It's the work that fails. You have to find footing in other works, and in yourself as a person. You cannot make your identity in your work only. Comics is not this big glamourous work. It's dirty and grungy and low paying.

Kactus Coyote isn't doing as well, it's a free to read manga. There is potential there, but it isn't the same audience as Jack. It does hurt when you can't do the work you want to do. You can't be afriad of that pain, you can't let it stop you. If you are doing this for yourself, you gotta be brave. If you are doing this as a business, there is a huge learning curve and it's gonna be painful. There's other people involved, people counting on you. You gotta be ready for that pain.

16. What are your favorite ways to engage with your audience over social media? How can other start building this community around their work?

Cody: You'll find some say that you need to use Youtube to succeed in Comics. That's no true. Now, I use it, it keeps engagement, the flame going when I can't pay. I see some doing well on Patreon, especially if you can get that monthly income to support you. GlobalComix too now has that monthly support and the Talent Marketplace to help creators network and find work. It's a grind, there are ways to gather people more agressively or fighting something... You need to be entertaining, not cruel. Cruelty and drama doesn't work.

The biggest interactions I get are during campaigns. Youtube shows worked very well, it helps you network and you can reach their audience. Getting those views and new people can really be hard, then you need to get them to pull the trigger and support you. If you are trying to reach comic fans who are used to paying less, selling them a more expensive product can be a lot harder. They love supporting YOU as a single creator though. Those personal connections are very valuable, and you don't want to be manipulative about it. Be genuine, have fun with what you do! You have to be someone people want to hang out with, and that's hard when you aren't social.

I have been able to find that by supporting others. Share their work and support them and I find that you'll do well too. I've tried Facebook, Twitter, Reddit. When GlobalComic shared us in the Sci-Fi thread, we blew up, and we've been in the top comics for a while now, the last year maybe?  There is a lot of luck involved, but you have to keep it in the back of your mind. It is trying to catch lightning in the bottle.

A lot of people want to put everything behind a paywall. You need to make it accessible to them, and you need to give them a reason for them to look! Set that hook, give them a reason to get excited about your work. Bait and switch is a big turn off, so try to have your cover match the interiors on your main realease. Variants are one thing, but you don't want to be dishonest or make them feel tricked. You're cover should be a preview of what's insid, especially for your first book. Be open and honest with your work.



17. Once a campaign is done, how do you get ready for the next one?

Cody: We are sure to get everything delivered first before you go to the next one. In terms of writing, I'm a script ahead, so I'm working in advance if possible. I work closely with Maxi, over the last 7 years, to make sure it's tight and together. If he's unsure about something, he'll reach out. There's a strong communication between us, it's a system of trust we've built. I trust him more than my own script sometimes. There is a strong language barrier between us, but we make it work. I have so much pride in the work that comes out of our collaboration.

Stan Lee didn't do much of a script, he trusted his artists. I find my work similar, I have a focusd idea of how it should move and notes. But I let my team add to it, that's part of the artist's job, they have that ability and I trust them to it.




17. Are there other projects in mind for Ironverse?

Cody: We introduced Tracker in issue 3. We've got him with a short 8 pagers. Our golden monk. We have different aspects of earth, 5 different areas, the micro and macro interaction. Kactus Coyote is on a galactic scale, so there is a lot to cover there. Savor the small victories. All the fanart we get, we have a whole section on our website.

That's all we have for today! Cody was an absolute gem to interview. No matter what the topic was, he was able to frame it in a positive light. It's one of the many reasons I enjoy Cody's work.

Speaking of Cody's work, here is a list of links for you all! Please check out his Twitter, where he is active. He also streams regularly. Go support him and get ready for the next crowdfunding campaign!

• Ironverse Comics Website
• Wikid Publishing Page
• Ironverse Comics Twitter
• Ironverse Comics Youtube
• Ironverse Comics Twitch

Thank you so much for reading. Please support Cody by any of the channels above. Thank you to Cody for joining us today. As always, feel free to leave comments or questions below! We'll see you next month with another interview!

Have a wonderful week,

ArtCrumbs and the GlobalComix Team